Croftwerk - Interview with Bernadette Croft, costume designer for Star Trek Strange New Worlds

The OPN Crew has dressed their podcast best and stitched together some questions for the fan-favorite designer of the best looking Star Trek costumes for the best looking Star Trek Crew: Bernadette Croft!

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Transcript

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Bernadette Croft: 0:00

This is Bernadette Croft, aka Bernadette Peters and you're they sound like they were well dressed.

John T Bolds: 0:35

Welcome to Open Pike Night the Strange New Worlds podcast where directive. I'm your host John T Bolds. here tonight with some amazing guests styles and fashions of Strange New Worlds with a woman who is the only are you wearing?" With me tonight are my co-hosts the man who has been found life of cutting paper with a pair of Fiskars, host of Sudden But Inevitable

Jesse: 1:07

Are you not supposed to cut paper with Fiskars? I'm I'm not aware of

John T Bolds: 1:11

how to do it if there's a piece of fabric tied around the handle use. Yeah, yeah,

Jesse: 1:16

be sure to follow us on threads @ Openpike.

John T Bolds: 1:22

And the man who will make a costume for any party as readily as

host of Green Shirt: 1:28

a Newbies Trek through TNG. Cameron,

Cameron: 1:32

I am a firm believer that there are two types of parties costume parties

John T Bolds: 1:38

This is true your shredder was an outstanding costume. That's still that the other day. If so, if you've been listening to Open Pikw Night for a eyes. Sometimes it may seem like a stretch that we knit together so many we are again. Our heads are bobbin with excitement, and we're getting wound up Worlds in our first offseason interview, as is our pattern, and it would seam opportunity. If our voices are croqui, it will be from the exclamations of Strange New Worlds. And as usual, I have tailor made this intro to be spoken the needle of comedy once again. Welcome to costume designer Bernadette Croft. Pike Night.

Bernadette Croft: 2:32

Thank you for having me. It's an honor. You guys are killing

John T Bolds: 2:38

Thank you. People have been asking us to get you on and we have mean, from the pilot episode, The costumes were just outstanding, and

Bernadette Croft: 2:51

Thank you so much. Yeah, that's wonderful. And I have to helped design the first episode as well. Yeah, it was a team effort for sure.

John T Bolds: 3:00

Excellent. Excellent. We are Call-in podcast, and we like to hear start off with an early one from some familiar voices.

Henry Alonso Myers: 3:11

Right. She's brilliant. She's incredibly talented. very lucky to have her. I mean, she's, you know, there are a lot of geniuses make this show work. And she's one of them and like the show looks great, because of her and her team.

Bernadette Croft: 3:35

Oh my god

Akiva Goldsman: 3:36

Bernadette is is brilliant. But she fakes an Australian not let her just don't let You gotta stop her, you know, like, not let her she won't but you can't let her go on.

John T Bolds: 3:59

All right. That's very nice. That was of course Henry Alonzo runners of Strange New Worlds who talked with us last last episode with our We're here with absolutely the most important person in the room. started?

Cameron: 4:22

Well, yeah, let's let's go back to the beginning like we do with all our get the costuming bug when did when did costumes become important to you?

Bernadette Croft: 4:32

I guess I think I was born with an honestly I mean young age storytelling and playing and had a great Dress Up Box and my sister and I would would make them buy tickets to the show would make them buy the program would audacity to make them you know give us donations in the intermission. So I was of loved all of that. And my favorite thing to do was Yeah, watch behind the made, how costumes were made props sets everything and yeah, had had just so the sound of music that King and I, I loved the Princess Bride and the favorite. And yeah, then later on, like Bram Stoker's Dracula, like, what an iconic. And I think, like, just seeing, you know, all of that art is just like, in. And yeah, it worked out which is is lovely.

John T Bolds: 5:45

Excellent. So was it mostly fantasy costumes that inspired other types too?

Bernadette Croft: 5:53

Yeah, I mean, I definitely gravitate towards fantasy and contemporary and realism. And throughout my career, I've worked on all kinds of it was it was made up north in Canada. And we had to dress everyone, you know, think there's an art to making things look believable. It kind of grounds the you're seeing on on on camera is real. So yeah, I guess I'm drawn to it all but

Cameron: 6:34

as you were, you know, going to school for that. And you know, your your a career like was there a moment that it felt like the door opened for you like, over into being a professional?

Unknown: 6:49

Yeah, I mean, I always loved kind of doing work experience, like part and do some work experience in the field. But after the Course was over, I and knowing that the lion the witch, and the wardrobe was being made over there. started like calling every department on that film until someone gave me a job. anyone wants to get into film and TV, you just got to be a bit annoying. So getting into props, and then props painting. But that was the threshold. I of my childhood fantasies. I loved these books, The Chronicles of Narnia, and of you know, the film sets like Aslan's army, so the weapons and the different things look really old and broken down or making a hunk of foam look like a it was there was just like, oh yeah, this is this is a career like I never environment. And I remember like Tilda Swinton who played the ice queen, she these carriage specially made for her because her dress was so big and it was like a piece of art. And she couldn't sit down and so she was like a kind of just held on and they took her from studio to studio and I just remember want to be I want to be like creating stuff like that. It's pretty cool.

Cameron: 8:38

Very cool. Actors lives uncomfortable. look amazing. Well, yeah,

John T Bolds: 8:45

yeah, you're gonna look great, but you cannot pee. So. So with I comes from that with the lion, the witch and the wardrobe. Have you had Turkish

Bernadette Croft: 8:58

Oh, I don't like it. No, I haven't. I haven't had it. I know to it myself. And Italy. Nice.

John T Bolds: 9:15

As far as costume design goes, who were your besides what you saw designers that you have wanted to work with or emulate or collaborate with?

Unknown: 9:29

Totally, there's so many out there and they're so inspirational, like She's incredible. And she got to collaborate with you know, Iris van icon. Gersha Phillips obviously, I've been able to to do that. Catherine recently did Elvis. And I did assist the background department on The Great ago. So I I could see her working and the way she was able to not only run a the production design as well. And I just thought that was so incredible. And always had great people around her. That could rally. And you know, I really But yeah, there's Sandy Powell. Kate Hawley, my God, she's from New Zealand, Peak. Those were really iconic costumes. And yeah, very inspirational to me.

Cameron: 10:37

Well, yeah. Speaking of the Great Gatsby and like, surrounding wondering, I don't know if you'd be able to speak to this. But like Baz production design and their costumes, especially, like, does that come from does he surround himself with brilliant people and say, do what you do best?

Unknown: 10:57

I think he's the driving force for sure. And I think he's the type of really infectious. So you can't help but do your best work around someone like partner and always elevates the design and always wants to make sure Baz's wonderful observing these big name directors and how they run a set and excited to be working in film. It's really cool. Oh,

John T Bolds: 11:35

with with like, Baz Luhrmann, or with like, Tom Ford and Bernadette Croft movie look like? What would you got to run a whole movie? What

Bernadette Croft: 11:46

Oh, god, oh, you're like a sci fi fantasy for sure. I was actually happen. I don't know. It's my favorite show is RuPaul's drag race. And And I'm just thinking, you know, as a sister show, perhaps a little crossover And we could say a little, you know, I don't know, makeover montages. It could incredible. They save lives. They're amazing. And just the art of their think it could be really exciting.

Cameron: 12:25

I like that people have asked like, how do you top season two? I think

John T Bolds: 12:31

We're gonna add that to our list. We have a Pike cooking show. do spin off shows here guys like

Unknown: 12:41

Rebecca Romijn. She she may even have RuPaul's number because she the Hello Kitty episode. very iconic. Violet Chachki. One. I'm seeing a Violet there's a connection there. They they're friends. So I feel like we can we can

John T Bolds: 13:03

That'd be great.

Cameron: 13:04

So with that, what would your dream project be then? If it money if barrier?

Unknown: 13:12

Oh, yes. Something surreal, like just thinking of Bram Stoker's those costumes were the set. I actually believe that the production designer was costumes. So that's like, why they so epic, and so haunting and beautiful. did such an incredible job. And I think something like that where it's all about well, obviously, but something epic and surreal, unusual. Yeah. Art-y. That

Jesse: 13:51

I'm having flashbacks to the cell.

John T Bolds: 13:53

Yeah, I was just. Yeah.

Cameron: 13:59

Well, I got to ask my Lord of the Rings question here. Then I saw that the Lord of the Rings. If you could design for one character or maybe race to design for?

Unknown: 14:13

I love Lord of the Rings. It's so awesome. And I know Kate Hawley, doing incredible job. I love love, love her work. But if there was another spin and moody he is. And all those layers and the breakdown and yeah, I just feel show to watch.

Cameron: 14:36

Yeah. So you wouldn't dress him up as Anson Mount in Elysium Kingdom?

Bernadette Croft: 14:41

No, no, that's a totally different character. No, he's Right. Yeah, I think he's maybe perhaps a bit more brave as well. Same potentially.

Cameron: 14:59

We do love to have Asking about at least in kingdom, but I know you've like anything you do and wants to know about that is out there in interviews. this one has been asked was Runa the first four legged actor you've designed

Unknown: 15:14

Yeah. Runa we love Runa it was so joyful to be able to dress Runa and bring on the show. I think it was a makeup artist who told Chrissy and then ask and do it". But yeah, Runa was awesome. We hope she comes back next up as a baby gorn or something.

Cameron: 15:41

Was it was it fun designing for for her? Yeah,

Unknown: 15:44

absolutely. So her dress was more of a like a hybrid. It was like a harness. And the cape just flowed off her body. But yeah, taking her like, "this is this Runa's bust or her chest? Or like, what is appropriate? really fun. I hope. I hope I get to do it again sometime. You know, it's really

Jesse: 16:14

So you've spoken elsewhere about how you hadn't seen Star Trek before you are a fan. Is there something that surprised you the most about Star Trek

Bernadette Croft: 16:25

I guess it's the fact that Star Trek is a you know, it's a you hope for the future. I thought it was all about space talk. And I think watch it to begin with, because I just thought I wouldn't understand. I relate to, you know, everyone on staff, like they want to be good at their job, like, really important. And the differences in people is something like, impressed and happy to, like, see myself. They're just like, yeah, it's know? So yeah, I guess that would be it.

Cameron: 17:09

That's a lot like a film set in that way. Everyone being good at the

Bernadette Croft: 17:13

Yeah, it's funny, like speaking about that, like, we all want And we're not working at the moment. And you know, there's a very quiet time, but able to watch season two, in its entirety with like, I guess the rest of they consume it, and what they're really drawn to, and, like, what is their to see the departments that I'm not, you know, really closely involved with, like Jay Z's cool visual effects. And just the different elements that we're all together. And the acting obviously, like, I go to set quite quickly, and I in like, for the first time, and then there's a team on set that maintains the every take. Makes sure that the actor is comfortable. But I'm seeing the acting are all that at their job. And like how amazing they're at portraying the depth. How beautiful they are. Oh, my God, they're also gorgeous. So yeah, good work in this in this time off.

Cameron: 18:39

Well, speaking of the actors, and what is it like to dress just one of have seen since 1999? Is the mummy. But you know, I mean, I don't know, do you

Bernadette Croft: 18:53

Well, I mean, they're good people as well. So you know, qualities about them, but um, you know, they are so beautiful and captivating different genres. Like we're always thinking, what can we do next season? know genre has been thrown around a lot. You know, film noir or the Western, thinking mermaids, like I'm thinking underwater, like Oh yeah. Be so gorgeous Trident I feel like that would be very captivating. So like, there's just like

Cameron: 19:46

that is stuck in my head. That's add that to the list producer

John T Bolds: 19:50

We can't put that out in the world that people will stop their fanfiction.

Bernadette Croft: 19:57

Maybe fanfiction is better because that would be so would that would be Yeah, blowing the budget for sure. That's a film.

Cameron: 20:07

Ooh, there we go. Well, well, speaking of the actors, you know, I've behind the scenes stuff, like, like you did, they always say like, they found costume on, like, so many people say they didn't really know who the clothes on. Is that a moment you've seen on actors faces when you put them in to be there for that moment, if you have,

Bernadette Croft: 20:30

oh, it is such an honor to be a part of that wonderful experience. Often we get the script before the actors and we have to mood boards together and thinking about character where they've been, how can we wearing? So yeah, that's a really cool thing to be a part of, like, even the certain way. Make them walk a certain way, the cadence, you know, how they uniform, like, I'm honestly, it's just wonderful when we have like day players just be on set for a day or two, or maybe a couple of episodes. But you uniform. And you can just tell they're so excited or they giddy or they say because, you know, it means so much to them. Because you know, it, it like when representing such a an iconic show, and all it stands for so yeah, it's had people cry out of happiness, mind you. And just thought, yeah, notes of yeah, it's like why we do it. It's just like, Man, this is a cool job. What the

John T Bolds: 21:57

Absolutely. All right. Well, we're gonna get to our next caller open mic night stage,

Michelle from Crusher Convo: 22:05

Hey Open Pike Night, and welcome to Bernadette strange new worlds. And I know you've worked in many different genres. I'm challenge with working in the Trek franchise because I do love the way that original series, but also kind of gives it that modern flair and the colors little Deltas in there, the attention to detail is marvelous. And we notice its fandom, especially to cosplayers. And I'm wondering also how much lead time example, there were a lot of militaristic gear and just just the uniforms. And I'm wondering how long you have to put that all together because probably was a bit of a scramble, I don't know. But I'd be interested to usually make a crusher connection here on open pike night, because I do love fashion forward in her own way, particularly with the lab coat. So I'm coats and sickbay? Yay or Nay? Until next time, everybody Live long and

Bernadette Croft: 23:30

Awesome. Thank you for that question. That's amazing. And yay awesome. Gersha and I did do a lab coat as an option when we first designed the up. So yeah, we did have it as an option. But it was deemed not necessary there could be a certain character that comes on that we need a lab coat for. So terms of the biggest challenge, I think originally, the biggest challenge was the enormity of the franchise. And you know how Star Trek means so much to I came to it from respect and I do feel confident that I can bring something our we are pushing it forward with with respect, but also, you know, adding our beloved Trekkies pick up on so it's really cool. And I think that's also the know, keeping that like era of nostalgia. But with today's technologies we're just kind of pushing it forward always.

Cameron: 24:56

What about the timeline? What how much time do you have

Bernadette Croft: 24:59

the timeline Yes, we get two weeks of pre production, and then we wrap. And so we're always kind of like on, you know, prep. For one same time and wrapping as well. So there's a lot going on, I will say, we this season ahead of time. So I can kind of forecast when we're going to need a to be more expensive than the other just because if the characters involved or are, but yeah, generally, it's about two weeks. So it is a bit of a scramble, from our writers and showrunners about certain things so we can start early. kingdom, obviously. And a few episodes in Season Two are we knew they were

John T Bolds: 25:58

What's it like seeing cosplays of designs that you've made?

Bernadette Croft: 26:03

Oh, it's so wonderful. It's very humbling actually. You know, much effort, and they usually using materials around the home and they're so got a 3d printer, but they're just like hand making things and hand painting the and stuff. It's just incredible. Like, I I Yeah, we're just thrilled when we get at different conventions and Comic Cons throughout the world. It's it's awesome too, like their they become more confident they can be a character doing cosplay. Yeah, you can just kind of, yeah, be a different person for a

John T Bolds: 27:01

Yeah. And you mentioned a 3d printer. How has that and additive manufacturing? How has it? How much of that do you use in day to day costuming?

Bernadette Croft: 27:14

Yeah, the 3d printing element for costuming has really changed But because we're moving so fast on these episodes, and we want to infuse as be a belt buckle or a rank insignia or a special decal or just like an that will really enhance the costume. So in charades when T'Pring has her gown cages that were painted in gold, they were 3d printed, and, you know, to long, long time. So it depending on the moment, I do think sculpting and the element. But when we're like, you know, working against the clock, we have to our digital artist is so incredible at her job, and has made so many beautiful elevate a lot of our costumes. And I think the digital costumer position is necessity in our industry. And yeah, she's got a background in architecture, thing to see her. Like, I'll just say, you know, describe what I want to do a and then print it overnight. And then it's a real, you know, tangible thing.

John T Bolds: 28:48

Very, that's awesome. Yeah.

Cameron: 28:50

I mean, I was wondering is that there's a difference between like, the like, strange new worlds, or just TV shows in general. Now, is that is that or just more emphasis on the costumes? Like, what what is that transition due

Bernadette Croft: 29:09

I think people are just in terms of production value, they, our ourselves, we want to keep improving, I know for from each season do and and their like special talents. I feel more ambitious. Like, I feel like I you know, before maybe I would be a little bit hesitant in showing because this, but now I'm like, yeah, we can produce this and we've got the talent think budget has a has a lot to do with that as well. But you know, you just come so far from, from the original series to now. So yeah, it's a bit of a

Jesse: 30:09

Can you speak to the balance of aesthetic versus functionality with ones that see like, action sequences.

Bernadette Croft: 30:19

Yeah, it is so important to understand the physicality So we work closely with Neal, our Stunt... Director, stunt director,

Cameron: 30:33

coordinator?

Bernadette Croft: 30:33

Coordinator! thank you, oh, my God, my brain is mush. But what the actor is doing in a scene, quite often, they need more movement in which is just essentially more fabric in there in that area, so they can move it's their back as well. So in episode one, the broken circle, Babs did a lot panel inserted in the back of that jacket, for that movement. And it's just restrict the actors, we want them to be able to to safely do all of their action perform, we don't want things flying off into their faces, we have to make sure That kind of thing. So yeah, making sure the costume looks good, but is also safe areas, like the musical episode, like that was a little bit of engineering dance top. That meant that again, there was a bit more room in the arm side. So over their heads do their high kicks, their high fives and and their tops piece of elastic underneath their top that connected to their pants, so it their movement, you know, everything still looked really neat and tidy and

Cameron: 32:07

Starfleet did not expect their crew to be dancing when the tops

Bernadette Croft: 32:12

dear listener, I'll tell you I did offer up our wonderful wearing sparkly uniforms. But they didn't they didn't say Yes, I know. I

Cameron: 32:28

The Bernadette Croft cut I want it Yeah,

Jesse: 32:30

we gotta get Henry and Akiva back now because they said

Cameron: 32:39

thanks Henry, but I have some notes.

John T Bolds: 32:41

Yes, they were really nice to you, but they weren't really mean to have another great caller returning here is Tess

Tessa: 32:53

Bernadette fucking Croft. Oh my god, I have been dying for you to be on all the time your outfits are fantastic. The costuming is incredible. constantly you can use puff paint to make this fantastic looking. Edgy. Alien leather. your praise for hours. I love the costuming of strange new worlds. I love love the costuming that you did for Code 8. Everything you do is incredible. I to have to find this balance between making costumes feel comfortable for an also be futuristic and sci fi. And more than that. I wanted to know if you'd little bit more retro futurism a little bit more? Like we saw in TOS because I want to see some weird cutouts and fabric choices. Um, I love your work. My Instagram. I love you. Bye. I

Cameron: 34:25

think that might have been a fan well

Bernadette Croft: 34:26

Tessa. That was incredible. I feel like Tessa would like and strange new worlds. Like that collaboration. I feel like she would you very much. That's very, very lovely. All of those lovely things. The balance futuristic. Yeah, I think it's just like, when we're buying costumes. We we, if something's asymmetrical, if the colors are a little bit weird or the different fabrics and textures. Like, you know, something that looks more Maybe it's a coll tech print or something that's embossed or a fabric add to these fabrics and textures and clothes to make it a little more Anna Pantcheva, who's our key textile artist is always working with unusual processes to just, you know, invent new ways of of how to put texture on things. paint, obviously, yes. Puff paint's awesome for so many things. It also is of like, grit. And yeah, it's it's, it's an amazing product. Foil, we lose use a things look metallic. And yeah, just avoiding things like shoe laces, things every day we we just always want to go a little bit, you know, think outside the a little more sculptural shoes that look. Yeah, just a little more

Jesse: 36:30

So you're saying magnets sewn in instead of Velcro?

Bernadette Croft: 36:33

Yeah, magnets are always great. We always have to look at at what is kind of, I mean, we're we're trying to dress people 200 years in the forecasting trends now. And that's a lot of athleisure wear. So we have to look at the forefront there. But also little sub cultures like we gorp core I don't kind of more of a outdoor recreational items and utilitarian clothing worn or Carhartt neck, kind of using those kind of brands and, and making them look kind use a little bit of that in Memento Mori, actually for the colonists. And we at the time. Or maybe we were ahead of the times, I don't know. Yeah, it's just what people are doing in the fashion world, but always remembering that character. So it doesn't always have to be so fashion-y.

Cameron: 37:46

You mentioned the jewelry. Do you source a lot of that? Or is that jewelry? Oh, yeah, it's just amazing.

Bernadette Croft: 37:54

T'prings jewelry is so beautiful. That's pretty much Good is based in the States, very sculptural, very divine, just to emulate terms of other characters like a horror. We've got a local vendor, A.Marie earrings, and we had all these great options for season three people. It's we get back to work, I can't wait for Celia to try those on. Because yeah, earrings and just like you know, she'll have she'll have her own collection.

Cameron: 38:39

Well I do have another it's not a caller question because she just told she can get a pair of Uhura's green earrings. I was hoping to find some at there. Oh,

Bernadette Croft: 38:50

yeah. I mean, yeah, check out A. Marie Costumes. She's on to sell them. But like, I don't know, maybe.

Cameron: 39:00

Maybe if I ask real nicely. Yeah. Slightly. be annoying, right. Just

Bernadette Croft: 39:07

exactly the little.

John T Bolds: 39:12

All right. Well, that was fantastic. Let's hear from another pipeline stage.

Newman: 39:17

Hi, open pike night. This is Newman, the space hippie from the movies heaps of praise at the fantastic work on the costumes on this show. To your guest her entire crew working with her. My wife Michelle and I watch every episode Starfleet uniforms in any Star Trek show. I particularly love the costume series. Michelle would like to particularly shout out the costumes for She would like to know, which was the most difficult costume you worked on for conferencing happens between your department and the makeup department, make sure it all fits. And meshes? Well, I imagine there's communication. But I and forth, and more figuring it out on the fly than one would assume. Forgive come from an acting background. So we only know how to lose weight after being That that's the lot. Thanks again for all your work and all my love to the Newman, the space hippie, out

Bernadette Croft: 40:45

Oh Newman space hippie, what a guy. Great questions. We prosthetics. But yeah, it is it is a fast moving machine. So often, it's like they're having meetings with the director, producers, show runners, you even if it's like, for instance, episode one, The Broken Circle, the amount of kind of like a bit, you know, rough around the edges a bit gritty, a bit breakdown and our costumes matches the makeup and the hair. So there's a lot of But I think, yeah, we all just try and do our best. And it honestly, we're on works out beautifully. Mostly, in the end, the most difficult costume season Klingons are very involved. Everything's custom. So if you think about two people that have the same measurements. But if they're different to be disbursed differently. So it's it's very important that everything's when they're wearing things like armor and Jennifer M Johnson is our key makes sure things are as comfortable as possible for the wearer. And this engineering involved, we have to sculpt the leather to the body and make sure intimidating. Alex Silverberg. Our key sculptor is doing those exoskeleton those. So that's a time consuming process as well. But yeah, it's a really out there, the gold and the black, we love that costume, another costume uniform, the amount of time it takes. And technically, for the shoulders, it's pieces in the in the jackets just require a very steady hand, very flat, really smooth, not a lot of bulk. And so it really comes down to the skill for those looks to be pulled off and the shoulder rank. That's something that's everything is custom, we have to get these pattern pieces digitized sent to silicone ink that rises in heat. It's like activated by the heat. So it has that's that's another like time consuming costume. But impressive as that update for the show. Yeah.

Cameron: 43:48

I love hearing about all this work. Because I mean it comes across I being like yeah, just that costume in the background was so impressive and the character in the scene. So those are the most difficult was there a costume from can't wait to sink my teeth into this. Oh yeah. So so fun to make.

Bernadette Croft: 44:10

Oh, yeah, the Lower Decks for sure. Lower Decks like so And you know, I love the show so I know of it. But in my mind I was like yeah, But like when you actually look at it, it's it's not red and black. It's Cordella it was that brought to my attention that fact the boots are black like add to these boots. I think we were buying out of season so the stock was it was just really hard to get the boots they were a big thing. Yeah, they have boot. We painted that in the way Mariner wears her her uniform is different to We wanted to make sure the proportions you know, were similar. I mean, a little human body. So of course, we had to, like, you know, make some considerations with natural hair. And she really appreciated that. That was a really cool animation. But yeah, meeting Tony and Jack and seeing how great they are at different options they give in each scene, like I've said this before, but I because it's just too good for people not to enjoy that. I love bloopers,

Cameron: 45:44

we will riot if there's not a blooper reel.

John T Bolds: 45:47

And those costumes, those lower decks costumes, were laser sharp. got to see him. We got screeners ahead of time. And so we got to see him before god, I cannot wait for to hear from our listeners. how good these look. They

Cameron: 46:08

And they all did like I remember, I mean, in an episode where translation from animated comedy to this, like a lot of people pointed out

Bernadette Croft: 46:19

Oh, that's so nice. Yeah, it means a lot. And I know how there's so many fans and they want to you know, see their favorite shows in say Sue Furlong our cutter, and our soldiers for those costumes did such an we we put scuba on the inside of the costume, which is just as an extra layer makes it like extra smooth and like it just had that little bit of a 2d was a nice kind of shout out to, you know, the animation. And of course, Mike he was happy with them. He didn't want any microprint he just wanted it super it. I think it I think it was a great idea. Very cool.

Cameron: 47:09

It's like scuba material, scuba, scuba

John T Bolds: 47:12

neoprene or

Bernadette Croft: 47:13

Yeah, it's a type of neoprene. Yeah. It's just a really cool. gets a little hot. So sorry, Tawny. Sorry Jack. It was integral for the

Jesse: 47:28

It definitely seems to have helped the fidelity of that translation. exact design brought directly to life. And you're right, it's almost like two it works. So well.

Bernadette Croft: 47:43

That could be a cool se- series actually. Just, you know, Yeah, I would want

Cameron: 47:51

to see them. Yeah, like that. Yeah.

John T Bolds: 47:54

So everything being as collaborative as you're describing, do the cast who has made suggestions about their their costumes that really added implemented?

Bernadette Croft: 48:09

I guess it happens all the time. Just little things we'll pick team, Jen Bowen, who's the digital costumer, she came up with the Starfleet uniform. And that is just like that. It's just such a golden idea. Like she she had the idea. And she just presented it to me. And I think that the open making it a space where everyone feels like they're they're heard and and like, even if we don't bring those ideas on board, it's just like, I think collaborative environment. And that comes from the top, Akiva and Henry on that. So I would say yes, Jen Bowen was integral in that really cool feature. come, we'll do the same thing. And that's all because of her. And Carolee. Fluevog, and Fluevog are the company that makes our Starfleet boots, and I collaborating with them. And they're so well made. And you know, it's a local dynamic flair to the silhouette of the Starfleet uniform. I think that it's my that people can buy these boots, and it's the real deal, like these are the not like a facsimile. It's not something that's made out of lower quality you know, I'd love to thank those and yeah, just like the collaboration with got ideas and we'd love to like incorporate them as much as possible. need to close and we need to just take the damn thing and put it on.

John T Bolds: 50:17

As anybody ever suggested the utility belt, anybody?

Bernadette Croft: 50:20

Utility Belt? Yeah. What do you mean?

John T Bolds: 50:24

Like, you know, tng they used to strap stuff to their sides.

Bernadette Croft: 50:28

This kind of this kind, I mean, Pelia's got that, that mean, what's in there? We don't know like, She's. She's a sinister one, I that little pouch. Where she's got tools. I'm sure she's an engineer, but I thief.

Jesse: 50:55

Speaking of stealing things, a lot of actors that we've interviewed they can't take anything home from set. Like they don't bring their deltas home, a unique position where if there's something you want, you can just make pieces that you just wear around the house? Yeah,

Bernadette Croft: 51:15

I wear the my Klingon costume when I'm watering my plants. vacuuming. No, I don't I don't have any costumes. But I will say I do have a And I won't throw this person under the bus because perhaps they stole it and I I'm gonna cherish it. But yeah, I mean, it's kind of fun to be in in you know, that's the fun like every now and then we'll put something on there. Run around or something.

Cameron: 51:58

Is it? Is it like, you know, a plumber who doesn't want to do anything and be like, I'm putting on like, flannel pajamas. I don't want to see

Bernadette Croft: 52:06

Totally, totally. Yeah, no, I think we're surrounded by it like, need this simple life when you go home.

Henry Alonso Myers: 52:17

Yeah,

Cameron: 52:18

I do love the idea of you watering your plants with honors though

Bernadette Croft: 52:21

Right? with Honor. Like, my plants are very important. As forest in here.

Cameron: 52:29

Now you mentioned Pelia. And before you mentioned loving the Princess starstruck seeing Carol Kane? Has there been any actors you've dressed, who

Bernadette Croft: 52:40

Oh, I know. She really was like, honestly, it is my favorite. And like, yeah, Carol Kane being on the show is just genius. Like that's the outside the box in terms of casting, and they'll do these interesting. Make these Come on. She's just a force, right? She's so funny. She's got that little we're like, oh, you know what, Carol? Earrings are kind of Uhura's thing. I a lot of jewelry. She's covered in jewelry. She's like, "Oh, I think I wear well, I guess she stole it from when she was like, you know, I don't know, when So she, she loves to contribute that way. And and we love it. She's She's so And yeah, it's just really cool to work with her. She spoke about the Princess were really uncomfortable. That was like one thing. I was like, oh, yeah, I favorite. And she loves to hear about it. She loves hearing that people still

Cameron: 53:59

If we ever get her on here. Oh,

Bernadette Croft: 54:02

yeah, for sure. For sure.

John T Bolds: 54:05

So we're gonna get into some more specific costume questions. industry, I mean, fashion is one of the most environmentally impactful surprised to learn and that's like, yeah, it's oil and gas and then mining they're right up there. Like, are there any changes? You think, they could be think need to be made to the fashion industry to help lessen that impact

Bernadette Croft: 54:34

Absolutely. It's, it's where we were thinking about it all the possible. And even like reuse things like fabrics, we can add another texture background performers costumes, we're always recycling those, especially shoes making them look a little different. I hate the idea of like wasting fabric, so there. We love shopping locally. There's a store called VSP here in Toronto. And you know, often they're the weird things that people can't wear and stuff, but buying things that are secondhand. But yeah, we're open we're open to trying to materials with Discovery, which is filmed here in Toronto as well. So we we waste product.

Cameron: 55:45

quality that budget on screen. Yeah, actually. Yeah, you

John T Bolds: 55:49

want to see a budget on screen? What is what is your top budget one line item for ordering materials, Each season?

Bernadette Croft: 55:57

Oh, it would be the Starfleet uniform fabric that's from expensive? Yeah.

John T Bolds: 56:03

Yeah. Just like yeah, that's always the

Bernadette Croft: 56:05

because we have to buy so much of it. If it's so expensive. And Where can I buy that fabric? So yeah, if you want to spend $70,000 on 350 meters just too it's only industry stuff like, but yeah, we have to buy our department come on big pallets and it's like getting a big forklift and and moving the top and the boots like we we do go through the boots, just because some And once they're broken down, it's hard to get them shining up again for use on our top items, I would say.

John T Bolds: 56:56

Let's hear from a couple more callers here. We're going to start biguanide stage.

Zo from Back Look Cinema: 57:02

Open Pike Night. This is USS cinema. Captain Zo Backlook Cinema podcast. I'd like to welcome Bernadette Croft to the show. no notes. These are some great costumes. I love the somewhat contemporary design, feel like the costumes have been designed in a way that doesn't doesn't like look so futuristic that it kind of Wiles you out or kind of takes something I enjoy of all of this series. I think these like from TOS all the way are like my favorite versions of the civilian costumes in the future. Their absolutely fantastic. So I can't wait to see what's coming up. In season three, worlds. Thank you. Have a great day. Richardson out.

Bernadette Croft: 58:15

Oh my God, Your callers they're bringing tears to my you. Thanks for the support. And

John T Bolds: 58:25

speaking of support our next caller, Abby. I'll play it here in shout her out. She absolutely provided a good chunk of the questions we're asking costume fan from the very beginning. And is I mean, I know she's gonna be hear what you have to say. So here is Abby.

Abby from First Flight: 58:51

Hey, Open Pike and Bernadette. It's Abby, Summer from Bernadette, you are a hero of mine. I absolutely adore your aesthetic. And all been nothing less than stellar. And the guys will tell you that I'm always the talking about the costumes freaking out about the costumes, like your work is continues for a very long time. And what I'd really like to hear you talk about a clothes that we get to see on Strange New Worlds when they're hanging out in fabulous ones in there. Plus, I really enjoyed the bartender uniforms and I against the classic TNG bartender uniforms by the time all of is said and and what do you do and how do you put all those backgrounds in that only gets those of us out here noticing and appreciating them. So keep up the good yours are well. We'll talk soon.

Bernadette Croft: 59:53

Abby, thank you and come work with us like we need like I Trek you need someone who's like the ultra nerd like someone who can go deep stuff because we we reach what we try our best and we have people we talk to Beyer. And like people yet, Akiva and Henry, but like sometimes like in terms team. Maybe Yeah, we should be my phone a friend. Thank you so much. There's a team. The the bartender's uniform, definitely kind of very sci-fi Judy kind of like match Jonathan Lee's beautiful port galley set, it's so Open Pike Night and gentleman, it will, you've got to see this set. It's it's something that yeah, it looked very sci fi pushed the boundaries a little bit they're just off work, they want to relax, they want to hang out with their maybe they want to dress up, maybe they just want to be in their uniform, like to relax and unwind and catch up with people. And in terms of the background, Claire Levick are our big coordinators. And they are responsible for all of attention to each and every background performer because you never know when an of them and put them next to Uhura or Kirk or Pike and just that's that's see a lot of that in this on the screen. So they they pay so much attention to and they're going to be in a port galley scene, for instance. And they're meant looking at a two hour feeding. And Claire and Nathan will fit multiple they'll send them to me and I get to pick the look. So it's just such a I creativity. I love how they always leave in something that's super wild. And then choose the guy in red leggings and red shoes and green shorts. You know, like costumes. And yeah, you're one of your previous colors, like with the the cut weird stuff. So like every now and then we'll just throw in something fun to so wonderful. And they're so kind to our background performers. Like, we want our and I think it really enhances the show when you see those familiar faces, like Port Galley in these in the sickbay on the bridge, like we want to see the more real. So yeah, Nathan and Claire, they do such a wonderful job. Love them.

Cameron: 1:03:22

I have a question about the civilian outfits. Because I mean, we do their civilian clothes. And I feel like most of the information we the audience comes through their costume. Is that I mean, do you get like pages of know about when you're designing the costumes? Or do you get to kind of designing their costumes? How's that process?

Bernadette Croft: 1:03:47

Do you mean like Ortegas and Chapel and like when we see the showrunners and the directors are just like that's between, like myself very integral to my work and the relationship between the actors. But what we think that their vibe is so for Ortegas obviously, she loves a like a like a cool edge about her chapel. They're in a bit more of a sporty look, there. And we haven't really seen Celia, Uhura in in civilians yet just in a I background. Like yeah, I think when Kirk had that photograph of her family, and pajamas. Yeah, yes. And gather the stuff lady should do rag that was a really how the actors feel what they think their character yeah I would wear and we around and see what feels good.

John T Bolds: 1:05:05

All right, we have one more caller. Our new caller this week is

Bernadette Croft: 1:05:11

Lucy here from the UK. Loving your costumes in Strange New costumes in Children of the Comet in season one. And Among the Lotus Eaters hear more about them. And what inspired you particularly I think the children great time. Cheers. Thank you, Lucy. So children have the comment. All that was like the Deleb. And then the spacesuits right, the Deleb, it was was like "an alien mother and her daughter walk along a desert landscape," detail in the script. And I love those moments sometimes because you can really really delve in and make it your own. And in these collaborations, obviously, image and a face and the physicality of this alien. So I obviously check in with sure the colors will work. That kind of thing. I look at the location, see where instance, it was a quarry, which was very sandy. But I made sure that the that in that environment. So these aliens were nomadic, they kind of lived were found. They were handmade and, you know, embellished in that way. It's just know, social class or rank or family inheritance and like, Who are these show who they are. And so we did a lot of fabric manipulation like bleach silicone made them look very organic. And they wore these like traveling hats, in silicone, inspired by Iris van Herpen. One of my favorite designers. So cool alien. I really hope they come back. I just love doing the Deleb and Eaters. Yeah, well, building personal favorite of mine. Yeah, such a great often ask my mom like she loves Star Trek, but she doesn't care about social She just like wants to enjoy it. And I was like, "Mom's gonna love this episode was Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow. I'm like, "okay, great. Episode Four. She loves the contemporary you know, each to their own like she right. Yeah. and Chrissy's performance. My god it was so Oh, yeah, the way she think about to even emote like that was like, so amazing. Like our cast. yeah, Amongst the Lotus Eaters was one of my favorites just because we could do Babs in his disguise. And Anson and Chrissy and their guards costumes were, season just because I could kind of look at ancient Mongolian armor and kind of there because they think that yeah, the references from the cage were quite they weren't appropriate. And so we just wanted to kind of like, honor, you know, much beauty to it. And these costumes, like every every member of the costume the sculpting the 3d printing the helmets, like everything really was a obviously is so important like the mud caked on their boots, like making the edges of the fur a little bit crusty in you know, like they're in the elements the time. Yeah, that was a really fun episode for me. And the team was a great

Cameron: 1:09:38

Yeah, they're not the flashiest of costumes from the season. But there's love about them. Yeah. So in the scripts, makes note of something like on the hat. Now. My

Bernadette Croft: 1:09:56

God we've had some few fancy hats, haven't we? This hat. Yep, did my research and looked at it just like different shapes and something that Ortegas looks so great in that. Other hats that have been quite memorable are So that it was funny. Like, you know, when Spock had this silly hat when a man go backwards Delta, blasphemy. I've heard that everyone's like very upset see. We just it was a joke, guys. But

Cameron: 1:10:41

they're either upset or they love it. Because they get where they get

Bernadette Croft: 1:10:45

but we thought oh, should we use Ortegas's hat? We could hat. Just a lot of fun hats. Like, yeah, they're they're in there in stock. Were

Cameron: 1:11:02

I don't know how much improvisation is on the show. I there ever been a moment where a costume choice is? has altered the script that you know? Yeah,

Bernadette Croft: 1:11:15

I mean, I will we've done it ahead of time for T'Pring's scripted as a modest gown and it was just like, Oh my God, but T'Pring. She's Can we do the opposite? Can we say the same thing and just show that? Oh, yeah, much. She's overbearing. She's making T'Pring. Wear something that's a little like, this isn't your wedding like fallax? So we just kind of elevated the more regal, and special. Yeah. Thankfully, the wrtders were into it. boring dress. Something modest.

John T Bolds: 1:12:02

Yeah. Speaking of her mom, how much fun was it to costume the most Trek. history?

Bernadette Croft: 1:12:13

Both of them they're so funny. IRL. They're both so funny. loved they love just like yes, wandering around in them and just being completely deportment is very kind of like, you know, reserved and the way they stand takes they're very like loosey goosey comedians, like they're very funny another episode with with them both. So great.

Jesse: 1:12:46

So for a character like Neera in Ad Astra per Aspera did you look at past inspiration, or did you have a pretty wide berth when it came to defining her

Bernadette Croft: 1:12:59

Yeah. Oh, that was such a great episode too. I loved this directed by Valerie Weiss, but yeah, I had a wide berth for sure. So when Pike tell by what the background, were wearing that, you know, it's a little monochromatic looks. Everyone was like very kind of tailored. Put together, I accessories, that kind of thing. But essentially, we wanted Neera to look very confident. And I wanted her to look just really feminine and powerful. the same page there for sure. I wanted to make sure we used beautiful colors that really looked good. And for me, it was important to have like a visual episode. So the uniforms are very formal, dignified, they've got that air worn on very special occasions. That means when you're in your formal dress behavior. They're very serious. And I wanted Neera's looks to have that kind beautiful, really and you know, to show that this trial has been it's been going had five costume changes so it was just Yeah one of those storytelling devices yeah, Yetide Badaki I mean what what a performance it was so amazing.

Jesse: 1:14:39

Yeah, yeah, you and she are the two Emmys that we have been pushing for

Bernadette Croft: 1:14:47

Okay, can I ask you a question? Okay, speaking of Emmy's. Next episode because I am really, I really don't know what to do here because I'm sometimes people see them in a different way. And it's just like I just don't give you three options can you give me your, your pick? So Episode One, The amazing guy written by Akiva and Henry, our top brass. And that was like the disguises, it was the Klingons there were the rebels and then our new uniform Okay, option two, Episode Four Amongst the Lotus Eaters, directed by Eduardo Kirsten Beyer. worldbuilding I mean, ancient Mongolian on the way that the number two, option number three Charades, directed by Jordan Canning, Kathryn Lyn, the high couture Vogue, Vulcan tailoring, like all of that the board, everyone ststunning there, what do you reckon out of those three?

Cameron: 1:16:06

that's actually going to suggest number two? Yeah, I

Jesse: 1:16:08

was I was gonna say Ad Astra, but of those three, three, I think I might mentioned, there's such a range. Yeah, there's so much I went. Whoa, I

John T Bolds: 1:16:20

would have to look at see what's one recently though, too, because that moves through award shows for the decade. Yeah,

Bernadette Croft: 1:16:30

it's very hard to predict. But like, this is so three of you think

John T Bolds: 1:16:37

we have been talking about what it would take to launch a Emmy and get people to get behind it. So

Cameron: 1:16:47

you certainly put a poll out for our listeners. Yeah. All right.

Bernadette Croft: 1:16:52

Should should we put Episode Two in as well? Or just the There's too many. Yeah,

Cameron: 1:17:00

you do four on Twitter. So

John T Bolds: 1:17:02

yeah. Well, we'll I think the all of us would choose episode two we're gonna do the dark horse.

Jesse: 1:17:09

This is a great problem to have Bernadette like when we can't figure out such amazing costume work, right? Like, this is a good problem to have.

Bernadette Croft: 1:17:22

Just a bit stressful, you know?

Henry Alonso Myers: 1:17:24

Yeah. Well

Jesse: 1:17:25

ask our listeners, I think out of the three that you gave us. I would say yeah, the the appearance of the Klingons you know, contrasted with everything is very impressive.

Cameron: 1:17:40

Can we just edit an episode that has all the costumes from the whole the college show.

Bernadette Croft: 1:17:49

That's a great idea, Cameron. Oh, absolutely.

John T Bolds: 1:17:51

And speaking of Klingons you got to costume. One very special same performer again. Oh, and work with Bruce Horak twice in different ways in zombie was doing some zombie makeup. It

Bernadette Croft: 1:18:09

was so great. It was I mean, that's another thing that needs to some way. Even if it's his voice or like, Whatever, whatever. Like he needs think that needs to be our thing. But um, yeah, it was really great to see what the heck? It was funny because right before we were gonna shoot, I like, What about space maggots? Like a space maker to things we put space sculptor Alex was like, alright, I'll just sculpt them space magazine. You they're there. And then, yes, when we see Bruce again, as a Klingon, he's in for a gift to ourselves and the crew. At the end of season two, we made socks for wearing Klingon armor. And it was it felt like ode to two Bruces. Like why interesting combination of like, just characters there and like just ideas. So and we'll send him we'll definitely send him a pair. Very cool.

John T Bolds: 1:19:28

What's it like with with costuming? A stunt double?

Bernadette Croft: 1:19:32

Yeah, we have to. Again, we talk with Neil, our stunt what's going to happen in the scene. And for our stunt performers. They often which is something that protects your spine. They were gel pads on the hips on to make sure the costume can allow for that. So that's like making the pants a movement in their, in their back, and there's enough room to put all these multiple. So it's like our team has to just do, like, you know, quadruple the something might happen. So we have to have extra costumes, you know, ready in know, if there's a fight and there's blood, there's something gets covered in multiples and that happened in Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, like we had we brought had multiples ready, because there's nothing nothing worse than being again, but you can't, because there's no more costumes left. So we have to always need. But yeah, costuming stunts is always really fun of it. Very cool.

Jesse: 1:20:52

So we've heard that you have, like, sort of a flowchart of the design. And because of that, I have to ask, have you sketched out what a uniform might look like?

Bernadette Croft: 1:21:10

Oh, they're pretty cool. I don't know if you can really get little uncomfortable. Maybe we should focus on how that fit, like how it feels fabric adding some microprint. Basically, pretty cool design. I dig it

John T Bolds: 1:21:33

the poster was very specifically brought up by one of our made this timeline, how much how much time have you put into that? drying out

Bernadette Croft: 1:21:45

me that was Jen Bowen, our digital costumer Oh, again, she's fan and her dad is and so she made sure she would like she just picked very it's just so great. Everyone has this flow chart in their offices, because Because there's so much going on in Star Trek, there's so much to remember. know, it's just like so, so much to keep track of though. This is such a great knocked it out of the park. She's incredible. It's just such a wonderful and the writers can't post about the show. Like, because there is so much people like all the behind the scenes, and we love to see the actors doing that they've missed out on that joy, especially when really big episodes like stuff where like we they could have been doing so many really cool interviews and about it in generating a lot of excitement. It's a shame.

Jesse: 1:23:03

Yeah. Well, we'll be reaching out to all of those people the moment they here. Yeah,

Bernadette Croft: 1:23:09

absolutely. Get them on. Yeah, that would be great.

Cameron: 1:23:14

Well, you had mentioned the history of Star Trek. Once you dove in, counting the ones you've worked on?

Bernadette Croft: 1:23:21

Oh, I mean, there's a special place in my heart for TOS It's seeing how wild some of those costumes were like, William Ware Theiss. Whoa, he obviously was doing things to be shocking and exciting and make people it did generate a lot of I would say viewers. But yeah, TOS is definitely so we're here on this show. And, you know, tapping into that nostalgia, being hopefully honoring their work. Hopefully, you know, they're proud come to life again, or Yeah, the designs, some of the sets like it's all

Cameron: 1:24:17

What about characters? Do you have a favorite character from the

Bernadette Croft: 1:24:20

trek, um, history of trek, I was just actually saw an episode Jones and the telepath from Is There in Truth, No Beauty. And I just love that outfit.

Jesse: 1:24:39

And that visor, the visor the

Bernadette Croft: 1:24:41

with the red kind of like, yeah, that was really cool. Spock interesting to see him being kind of like, happy as as the admiral there was anyway, it was a really great episode we saw Scotty in his kilt wearing an IDIC our show before. So it's really cool to see that. Our there's just so many

Cameron: 1:25:15

Yeah. All right. Well, we've got a little segment we'd like to try. going to read the names of season two episodes. And you just tell me the first first costume that pops in your mind or, you know, we're a little word

Bernadette Croft: 1:25:34

leather

Cameron: 1:25:38

Ad Astra per Aspera

Bernadette Croft: 1:25:39

Yetide

Cameron: 1:25:41

tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow,

Bernadette Croft: 1:25:43

my mom she just loved

Cameron: 1:25:47

among the Lotus Eaters.

Bernadette Croft: 1:25:49

Mongolian ancient Armor.

Cameron: 1:25:53

Charades.

Bernadette Croft: 1:25:54

Fashion.

Cameron: 1:25:55

lost in translation.

Bernadette Croft: 1:25:57

Leather Jacket.

Cameron: 1:25:59

aaThose old scientists.

Bernadette Croft: 1:26:01

Joy.

Cameron: 1:26:02

Here's what we didn't talk too much about under the cloak of war.

Bernadette Croft: 1:26:06

So much work. My God. Much work like so many. Oh my god. That was like, I would say the most Interestingly, like that one, they tactical uniforms very, like labor jumpsuits and, yeah, there's a lot of background. So it was just like, a lot.

Cameron: 1:26:33

How about subspace Rhapsody? Ah,

Bernadette Croft: 1:26:37

do you know what my mom again like when when that episode just like she was bamboozled with joy. Like, she just could not believe that we doesn't know. She doesn't like keep abreast of like social media and she spark started singing She just thought it was the most amazing thing. So I me of how much joy my mom was exuding. Like she like she thought What the I She just loved it so much. So yeah, seeing people's reactions like that is

Cameron: 1:27:17

That is awesome. I mean, you know, Paramount advertised that was Trekkies that kind of picked up. Yeah, but I just talked to someone else who coming. Like that must have been such an amazing moment.

Bernadette Croft: 1:27:32

It was a real shock, like and then it just kind of went own way. Oh my god. And then you know, especially Celia and Chrissy and Song. People.

Cameron: 1:27:50

Oh, and then finally, hegemony. Final finale.

Bernadette Croft: 1:27:58

Okay. Just goo. We had to read a thon goo like what it looks like, how did it dry on costumes? goo you just had to do a lot of goo. That's good.

Cameron: 1:28:19

You absolutely understood the assignment.

John T Bolds: 1:28:21

Yeah, very, very good. Thank you. It's a new segment we're continue doing because that was super fun.

Bernadette Croft: 1:28:29

It's really fun. But feel free not to do all of them because

John T Bolds: 1:28:34

I mean, we so is there anything that you haven't gotten a Strange New Worlds that you just would love people to know?

Bernadette Croft: 1:28:46

No, I would just like to emphasize how amazing the team is wouldn't be able to dream up these ambitious costumes. And they really do shout out my costume team. For sure. Hopefully, they'll come back.

Cameron: 1:29:09

Well, I have one final, not a listener question again. But my daughter some of our planetary scientists because she's really in the space but she also I have to say I am amazed that with the six year old puts together with masking around and cuts up the other doll clothes but that's another story. I what she gave me she wants to know from a professional costumer how she can make flowy material to make skirts for her Barbies. Like what's a good around the that Oh,

Bernadette Croft: 1:29:45

good question. I would I would walk around the house and feel around. Maybe it's the curtain maybe it's got a good drape.

Cameron: 1:29:55

Bernadette said three seasons and she has berrima that you